Unknown being designed weapon
It must be possible to fit the torpedo launcher into a smallish ship – say, a combat modified Light Freighter.
(5 emplacement points base, reduce passanger 50% + 1 EP, Increase crew 50% + 1 EP, strip cargo (100 tons / 5 = ) 20 EP = 27 total)
It must be a realistic torpedo. That means it can sink a capital ship in two shots, according to the one that wants these developed.
To balance out the high damage, the cost in both credits and emplacement points must be high.
Emplacement points are high to accommodate the launcher and to because the torpedo uses an explosive that detonates on contact with atmosphere, not too picky what mix of atmosphere.
Assuming that this torpedo launcher is about the same size as a tie fighter(Huge – Collosal weapon). The actual shots are Large (three hexes each). Not entierly inapropriate – each /shot/ costs more than a TIE fighter, and the weight is about right for a real world torpedo.
The suggested stats
Emplacement points: 25 (barely fits on a seriously converted light freighter)
Cost for launcher: 150 000 credits (60 times a normal proton torp launcher)
Cost per shot: 48 000 credits (Again – 60 times the cost of a normal proton torp)
Max ammo in launcher: 3 shots (As normal proton torp launcher)
Damage: 10D10 * 20 (Min, 200 damage. Average – 1100 damage. Max 2000 damage) (This is what should justify the high cost and size of the launcher…it’s a frigging HUGE torpedo. This thing weighs around 100 times as much as a normal proton torp. It’s a weapon meant to sink ships capital ships.)
Special: A hard point array does /not/ allow you to mount four torpedos. That would be far too cheesy. A hardpoint array is capeable of mounting a single shot of these.
For compaison – an Imperial Star Destroyer has 125 Shields, DR of 20, and a Threshold of 256, 2 100 HP
An average hit will deal (1100 – 145 = ) 995 damage.
2.1 average shots will destroy a star destroyer – even slightly above average hits will sink it in less.
(I have no idea if we’d use them ourselves, but he wants the tech to exist. If it’s possible to make I can’t really budge on the damage, but the emplacement point cost and credit cost can skyrocket for all I care.)
what is a hard point array?
like a battery?
An optional upgrade in Scum/Villiany for starships. One emplacement point, lets you mount weapons on the outide of your ship. A normal one can carry (Amongst other things) four missile or torpedos.
Ships can only have a limited number of hardpoints – I think it’s up to their cost modifier in hardpoints has no effect on the ship, more than that slows them to 3/4 speed, twice their cost modifier is the max
So – a TIE could have two hardpoints. A B-wing could have four.
The major downside of hardpoints – apart from the cost and the slowdown – is that the things mounted on them can be destroyed if you take too much damage.
They’re also pretty much the only way a fighter could ever mount any of these torps, so I thought it worth ruling out the cheese of a figther holding four of them for one emplacement point.
so if I take this analogy to WWII torpedos for a second. Big bullet coming through the water, and punching a hole in my ship. Needs to get through the ships metal hull. no shields
Effectively though, as designed, the shields on the capital ship are useless. Your minimum damage is higher than the shields
soo would you think the shields should be able to provide any protection against this monster bullet coming at them?
Sure it does! It prevents 125 of it.
If neccisary I can combine it with another idea of mine, shieldskip torpedos – which would raise the cost even higher, but these already cost more than some fighters per shot so that’s no real issue.
I’d argue that these could reasonably be an exotic weapon, by the way, just to make them that much harder to use.
I mean, it’s an entierly new and unwieldy weapon design. That’s exotic to my mind. :3
yeah I could see that
is the torpedo a massive bullet, or would it be an energy attack like a laser?
I was basing it off the proton torpedo, just upsized to rediculous proportions…so I guess it’d be “You know how proton torpedo was a /miniature/ nuclear explosion? We took out the miniature part.”
If we went with a massive bullet design, I could see shields having increased effectiveness (Consider twice as strong?), although the sheer mass of the shot would still likely punch through.
so how heavy would a torpedo be?
Well, it’s physically a large item. So somewhere between 500 KG and 4999KG. That’s quite a range – I was planning somewhere around 3000.
Obviously these would be hard to, or possibly impossible, to use in atmosphere.
Too heavy for the air to support them.
Also – hardpoints are on page 59 of scum. Looked them up
amd could the tie or even b wing even carry them? the launcher must be hugerer
They’d have to mount individual missiles on hardpoints – no launcher. Even then, it’d be taking up a significant amount of the ship.
Basically – imagine a modern fighter, which can carry several missiles under each wing. Replace those “Several” with “one each”
And it would slow the ship down, depending on how many it carried.
You physically can’t get the launcher into anything smaller than a light freighter. And even then, you have to strip out basically all of it’s cargo space.
I’ll admit, it’s a game unbalancing weapon. It was /designed/ to be.
BRB – moving comp.
DM said (2:41 AM):
DM said (2:42 AM):
and would you envisage the attack being the normal same as any other weapon?
DM said (2:44 AM):
I’ll look up hardpoints.
DM said (2:45 AM):
By the way this weapons seems totally awesome, so could reasonably exist
so it is up to my gunner (s) to fire the torpedo?
Depends on who the weapon was asigned to, just like any other weapon. It’d probably be a good idea to make it a gunner weapon, yes.
ok, brain still has ideas here, but I’ll shut it off til tomorrow. and we can talk asteroid shields too then.
perfect. good night
How we’re going to make it:Note: We haven’t actually made the torpedos yet. Did we ever even finalize the stats? Or figure out how we were going to represent building a whole new weapon system? xD
yeah, there’s some figuring we haven’t done, isn’t there, and some of this sounds like out of game figuring. Or perhaps a side trip or two to work on the building of it. Perhaps need to raid a particular ship yard to get the weapons system software to modify it for what you need. or to get a particular component??
yes a dockyard or an industrial arms manufacturer who already makes something in the same vein…. might need to pay them a visit
I doubt it. If we need to raid other ship yards, then the design is flawed. Requires a part that can’t be easily gained.
copy paste works well though. You can design your weapon system from scratch, or take the plans of something that does some elements that are the same, and build from them. Could save weeks of design work
And I’m desiging it from scratch, because it doesn’t exist.
If there was something in the same vein, this entire project would be unnecisary
weapons systems that launch something exist, mortars….. Warhead, and penetration through shields and hull – there must be something that you can use as a baseline. And some may be much more accessible than others. If you don’t want to do it that way, no probs
I don’t want to do it that way.
so we need to find you a place to do design, build some prototypes, a lab?
Making this isn’t meant to be an adventure – just a change to the setting.
Getting the actual SHIP made may be harder. But designing the systems? That’s just down-time between adventures to my mind. And, aye.
no reason why you couldn’t stealth into a kdy or other facility, and use it for a day or so, do some testing, and sneak out again, no one the wiser
when it is a destiny, I am meant to build into the game, elements that give you the opportunity to make/lose progress towards that destiny. So some of it of needs should be in game.
Mr Hon’dra is going to a geology lab to make himself a crystal for his light sabre (not a destiny, incidently), and could be run out of game completely. Navik might have a similar type of task for Roah. Empty out that building for a day or so for me, will you? I need to use it undisturbed, or whatever
Sure, that works for me – ONCE we actually decide on the stats/method of design.
I can build them into the game, as opportunities for you to ignore, to take up, to whatever
fair enough, so we should do some thinking and brainstorming around it
We already had…something, but it wasn’t nailed down…
yes, we need to nail it a little
…do you remember what we had? ‘cause I don’t. x.x
Do you mind if I put what we have so far into Obsidian for us to both look at?
Go ahead. Just mark it as a prototype
you can always get to it from home page, go to Destiny, Navik’s destiny has the torpedo link.
I made you the owner of the torpedo, cause then we can both modify etc
So. Question one – do the actual stats look broken?
reading, all I did was copy it in, now need to /look/ at it
Remembering that it was meant to be psyco powerful. Am more worried that damage vs cost per shot is reasonable.
I think I am going to have to do some comparison reading to settle on that, for sure it is a critical point to figure out
Are you saying in the thread that that the idea is that they cannot be mounted on a fighter?
A /launcher/ can’t. But through use of hardpoints it is possible to mount individual torpedos
I have a torpedo loaded onto my boat. Without a way to launch it, what is the point??
Nono. Hardpoint is a special type of upgrade. Normally it allows you to load (and launch) for missiles without a launcher. In the case of torpedo it’d only be one, not four of them.
This much, at least, I’m sure we went over.
yes we did
would you see the torpedo being fired per round, or does it take longer to load, aim and fire each one?
specially trained gunner, i think, even in reallife
I am honestly not sure of reload rate.
or just heavy wpn prof
I’d say exotic weapon. In ten years it might just be heavy, but now? It’s brand new tech.
yup I can see I have some homework to do. I think I’ll put even that up there, so we have somewhere to put even what we think needs figuring out, to get this moving. Any other thoughts there, besides what I need to do. You were talking stats, which means me reading and then us talking through more bits. Then you were talking method of design, so if you have any homework there, let me know
I have NO IDEA how to go about adding these to the game world. Some sort of mechanics, obviously, but how long / involved it’ll be? shrugs
so we need to figure that out too. I could see something for optimal shape, warhead, how to punch through hulls, that is the important one, how to deliver the payload (your nuclear explosion) into the target, vector/velocity/momentum, launchers. So yes, we may have some series of checks, and for some we may need test range (how many prototypes to we need to build to optimize the payloads…
So Stats to be determined, Skill checks/Ability/whatever else and other criteria to succeed at design
Next question – for cost versus effectiveness, this weapon is worth using against a star destroyer. Have you any thoughts about how small the vessel can be and still have this as an effective weapon. If you have a sense of that, we can see if using the star destroyer stats (only) make sense in figuring out stats.
Theoretically, there’s nothing stopping the lightest of fighters from mounting a single torp.
hmm, did I say that correctly. How small can the target ship be?
Theoretically, a light fighter. But what a damn WASTE!
It’s a weapon. You could use it on anything you can hit.
This doesn’t make it cost effective to do so.
“Sir, we’re shooting down their TIEs!”
“But, uh, sir…each shot costs more than the TIEs they’re destroying…and we do miss a lot…”
“…idiot is going to bankrupt us.”
exactly, so where is it not a waste, cause if we go down to freighters or perhaps cruisers…. then we can look at the stats of that ship too, and it gives us a sense of whether the stats are broken or not, and whether costs are realistic/reasonable or not,
I disagree. I’d suggest that if a ship can be relatively easily destroyed by conventional weapons, then a torpedo would be a waste cost-wise. (Possibly still worth using for purposes of /speed/, but a waste cost-wise).
Therefor – find the weakest ship that is hard to destroy with a conventional load out of turbo lasers.
Compare costs with that.
I’m open to all options here, cause likely the weapon will be used against many targets
only question I have is the WWII use of torpedo. You’re a sitting duck merchant vessel in the midst of a convoy surrounded by destroyers. They are not the target, you are. And you likely have a big honking hold, perhaps – though possibly no, shield, a wee touch of DR???
are we building to that expectation too?
I do not understand.
…oh, wait, yes I do.
No, we are NOT. This is very much an anti capital ship weapon.